S7 E4 The Role of Black Women in Democracy: A Panel Discussion

[00:00] Judge Faye R. Chess: So as these elections have moved forward, I kept saying is, particularly to my white women friends, is you all are the majority voters, but your numbers are not showing you’re being an ally, not even close. And I said, the expectations that black women will come and save you all needs to be dispensed. If you are going to talk it, then you need to walk it. 

[00:30] Nastasia Green: You’re listening to the Seed Field Podcast, the show where Antiochians share their knowledge, tell their stories and come together to win victories for humanity. I’m Nastassja Green, the Seed Field Podcast’s editor. And for this season of the podcast, we’re focusing on some of the most exciting events from our university’s year of pro-democracy action, Antioch Works for Democracy. Today, we’re excited to share a panel from about a month ago on the role of black women in democracy. This panel was organized by Antioch’s Anti-Racism Task Force and by Stephanie Helms Pickett, Antioch University’s Vice Chancellor for Equity, Belonging and Culture. Stephanie moderated the discussion and her panel was made up of three highly accomplished women in US politics, two judges and a committed advocate and activist. When you’re listening, the first voice you’ll hear is Stephanie Helms Pickett. Then you’ll hear Judge Faye R. Chess, who since 2018 has served on the Seattle Municipal Court. She’s currently the presiding judge and was appointed to the bench after serving as magistrate. After that, Cassandra Stokes will join the conversation. She is the Democracy and Economy Coordinator for North Carolina Black Alliance and has extensive experience in political and municipal leadership. The last person to join the conversation will be Judge Ashley Parker, who since 2017 has served as a district court judge in Wake County, Raleigh, North Carolina. And a heads up that you’ll hear the voice of Pia Alexander, who’s teaching faculty in the Department of Applied Psychology. At the very end of the episode, she’ll be reading off an audience question. I think you’ll really enjoy listening to these accomplished and insightful women whose perspectives are full of heart, determination and a belief that a better, more equitable world for themselves and their fellow black women is possible. Let’s get into it. Here’s Stephanie. 

[02:24] Stephanie Helms Pickett: We’re so excited to have you. So my first question will be, how have black women historically contributed to the development of democratic institutions and movements, both in the United States as well as globally? 

[02:38] Judge Chess: Historically, we started and then other people follow it. And like we give them the playbook on how this is done. I think when you look at Shirley Chisholm, she gave the playbook on how a black woman could have the audacity and the tenacity to look at seeking the presidency. And she didn’t just say it, but she mobilized, right? And then you look at the Fannie Lou Hamers of the world, again, mobilizing and saying, we have a right to vote. We have a right to be in this space. Our voice counts. So we have always been there, helping to lead the march to we have a voice, we have a reason to be here. We have something to contribute. 

[03:24] Stephanie: Excellent thoughts, Judge Chess. Thank you so much. Can you discuss the legacy of black women leaders such as Fannie Lou Hamer, Shirley Chisholm, Kamala Harris and others in shaping democratic participation and maybe what that even means for you personally? 

[03:40] Judge Chess: So I can probably tell it better about what it means for me personally. I told this story the other day when I was moderating a group of candidates for judicial office. And the one thing about being a judge is it limits me in what I can say because we cannot talk about political partisan issues, but we can talk about the right to vote. I look at when black folks were given the right to vote, which was 1965. At the time we lived in Mississippi, my father who had a medical degree along with three other degrees could not vote because of the test. He couldn’t pass the test, which is absurd. Then my mother who was an educator who ended up with a master’s in education could not vote until we got to Ohio, to Cincinnati. So with that being said is the movement with the suffragettes who said, “Hey, women have the right to vote.” And then black women capitalizing on that and saying it’s just not women’s right to vote, but it is a group of people, black folks who have a right to vote. And I think about if those people, particularly women, ’cause people don’t talk about in the civil rights movement, there are a lot of unsung women who played a role. It’s like Martin Luther King was in the front and a lot of other gentlemen, reverends and Jesse Jackson, et cetera. But it was women who were actually in the streets, having the organizing at their homes, organizing in the church to make sure people got out to vote. If they had not done what they did, I would not be sitting where I’m at now. We stand on their shoulders. We really do. We stand on their shoulders. And we also have to remember is that our lives were lost. To give us the right to vote, you look at Medgar Evers who lost his life and his wife, Merle Evers, kept up the fight, but she lost her husband in this fight and she did not give up. She persisted. Coretta Scott King, who despite losing her husband and having four children, she then opened a center to continue this work. So black women, we persist, we persist, we persist. Stacey Abrams, even though she did not make the governorship twice, she continued to persist on getting out the vote ’cause she understands how important it is for us to have that voice and to have that power of that voice. 

[06:23] Cassandra Stokes: I think when we talk about shaping the democratic process, black women have all, and when I’m hearing these names, like Fannie Lou Hamer, Shirley Chisholm, black women have always been the backbone of sort of grassroots organizing. Being black has never been the problem. Our issue is just making sure that we know that we deserve a seat at the table, but making sure that they know that we’re qualified enough to be at the head of the table. I think sometimes we have to overcome this stigma of like black women can’t win, black women can’t win statewide. And I think that’s one of, and I feel like I’m already jumping on one of my questions, but I think that’s one of the things when I hear about the democratic participation is that we always are the voting block that’s moving the needle, that we’re always seeing an increase in volunteers or efficiency when black women step up and lead. So I think in regards of shaping the democratic participation, I think black women remove the needle and that we’re increasing participation that is always coming from us. 

[07:20] Stephanie: I wanna pick up from there and you called it, right? So despite being the most loyal voting individuals, black women are often underrepresented in political offices. Talk about some of the systemic and systematic barriers that still exist and how we can overcome them to ensure that we have more representation. 

[07:40] Cassandra: So I think in regards to black women, it’s a whole plethora of issues. I mean, equity for one, financial equity. I mean, we’re talking about, growing up myself, growing up in a single parent household and someone who’s trying to run for office, you have to think about the financial hurdles that you have to overcome. We don’t have, black women don’t have all the resources or the friends or the donors to get those millions coming in overnight. We have kids and we can’t spend long nights in the offices because we have to go pick up our children or go take care of other things. I think it’s a really, it’s an equity issue. And I think also for black women, one thing I’ve noticed just being or operating in this space by sometimes you can lose by who’s not at your table. So I think sometimes surrounding yourselves with people that look like us, that think like us, I think that’s important too, versus sometimes when you’re winning statewide, there’s this tactic of, okay, well, if it’s not broke, don’t fix it. But when you’re a black candidate, you have to strategically move a little bit differently. You have to fundraise a little bit differently than other candidates. And sometimes that’s, well, not sometimes, but all the time, that’s usually a hurdle that black women have to get through. And then just even piggying back of what we were talking about earlier, I think there’s this voting stigma that, women can do the work, but do they need to be the front-facing leaders? 

[09:01] Judge Ashley Parker: And I would just say, in addition to that, I’m a district court judge in Raleigh, North Carolina. I’m the third and youngest black female to hold this role when I was appointed, when I was 30 years old. I’m 37 next week. But I can tell you that it was not easy by any means, even in 2017, when I was going for it. They told me I was too young. They told me I was too inexperienced. They told me I was unqualified. These are things that we are constantly told as black women. I think as children, we are told, you’ve got to do twice as much to get half, right? We’re taught that, right? So even if you listen to our backgrounds, you will hear that we have gone over and beyond to demonstrate our qualifications for the position. For myself, I was a prosecutor. I was also an assistant attorney general. I had five years of experience, but I had a wealth of experience. I knew I had to do that because I may be young. But even withstanding that, individuals who did not have half of my experience, but because of their skin color, they were afforded opportunities, or seen as they’ve got what it takes, or they’re ready to go. They were not looked at the same way that I was, whenever I said, I want to put myself out there. And I think it goes back to what Judge Chess said, as well as Cassandra said earlier, that we are leading efforts, but we’re doing it alone. We have to step out on our own, put ourselves out there. But even still, the other thing that we’re dealing with are stereotypes. We’re dealing with stereotypes of being an angry black woman, right? So even as a judge, I have to be mindful of those things. Very cutesy with the things that I’m dealing with every day, because people are going to try you. And they think that if you are, as a woman, and as a female attorney, if you are aggressive, I mean, and I’m saying, they will say, you know, she’s not advocating, she’s overdoing it, she’s angry. But as a man who can do it, and I know we’re going to talk about intersectionality later, but a man can do that, and he’s a zealous advocate for what he’s doing. So we have so many additional barriers to what Cassandra was saying financially, but also just on a basic level of trying to do our jobs, those additional challenges of being a black woman in the color of our skin. 

[10:55] Judge Chess: So I don’t know if we’ll get to this, but the advice that I give to sisters, ’cause I believe there is enough room at the table for all of us, is that look at different people in your life. I always say, get you a kitchen cabinet, and that cabinet should look like multitude of different people who have different strengths. So for myself is, I had declined many times to be a judge, because I was a single mother at one point, I never made a lot of money, I didn’t have this pot of money to run, I felt like, how am I going to have to fight for a job every four years? So I just kind of watched people who had been my colleagues on the bench when I was a public defender move up into these spaces. And then finally women came to me and they’re like, “Faye, we don’t understand why you’re not doing this.” And I said, “Well, God only comes so many times.” So as soon as I decided to do this, my house caught on fire, I’m sitting in the hotel, my dog is under oxygen tank at the animal hospital, and I said, “God, I don’t understand, I thought this was what you meant for me to do.” Well, my friends and family said, “You’re not hearing him correctly.” And so with that, with one outfit, I went out there and I started campaigning, because I got in the race late, I didn’t have a campaign manager, so guess what? Who made up my campaign team was women, not just sisters, but women who had expertise in fundraising and management in different aspects, worked in corporations, and they brought and had never worked on a campaign. And as Judge Parker knows, judicial campaigns are a little different of what you can or cannot do. These women and a few men came to my table and they said, “We got you, Faye.” And that’s how I got over. And so I want women to think, doesn’t have to look like what white society says it has to look like to get you over and be successful. We know talented people that we should utilize. I said to myself, “I’m a single mother, I don’t have enough money.” But what I forgot is I had poured into other people over the 35 years of my, I’m now 35 years in my career, who were willing to pour into me, and I didn’t understand that and didn’t realize it. So we are here to help one another, right, and support, but we think it has, because the majority race has told us you can only get there if it looks a certain way. And I don’t believe that’s true. 

[13:42] Stephanie: You all are lifting up some incredible realities and methods of organizing. How has organizing changed over time? And thinking about it from a grassroots perspective, what are the things that we’re doing well in terms of organizing and where are the gaps that exist? And how might we connect to ensure that we’re closing the gap or connecting those dots so that we are all taking that stance that you just mentioned, Judge Chess, of coming to you and saying, “What can we do?” 

[14:17] Cassandra: So I think back then it was, and it still is, but it was a heavy emphasis on door knocking. I’m an organizer at heart. I still believe in knocking doors, but it was a lot of door knocking, and churches clearly played a pivotal role in making sure we got out the vote and getting people informed. But I think, especially since after COVID, even I think it was Judge Chess that lifted up “When Would Black Women,” or there’s another organization’s called Elect Black Women, or Women Should Lead. There’s so many different organizations now, right? And what we’re seeing now happening this year is just even when candidates are announcing or when Kamala announced, there was just a huge energy shift. There was an increase in volunteers. They were raising millions on a virtual Zoom call in over an hour. And I think that’s the aspect of it has changed that we’ve gone not just from being in person, but we can now organize and build coalitions virtually and get our message out nationwide. Of course, social media is playing a huge influence, but the influencers are now getting paid from different coalitions or different organizations to blast their message out. Not only is it still of like that grassroots level door knocking, that definitely still exists, but also we’re now seeing more of like a digital aspect of it because you’re able to reach so many more people at one time. I think that’s sort of how it’s evolving now.

[15:43] Stephanie: That is absolutely amazing. And I think we’re seeing some of those shifts now. I’m amazed at what I’m getting by text and how quickly it is things are packaged and ask you to move it on if you are not comfortable with going door knocking, but I’m with you. I think door knocking is still pretty amazing. You all started lifting up this tension between the intersection of race and gender. And I wanna make sure that I swing back through there. How do you think that intersection of race and gender affect the political engagement of black women compared to other groups? 

[16:23] Judge Parker: I can take a stab at this one. I mean, I think it’s extremely challenging for black women. And I just wanna definitely put this in here, put this plug in to protect our mental health at all times, right? That is black women, we have to continue to practice self-care and self-love because of that intersectionality. We don’t know if we’re getting it because we’re black or because we’re a woman. So when there’s a sexist issue, we have that issue. When there’s a racist issue, we have that issue, right? And black men don’t, I’m not saying black men do not have their challenges, they absolutely do, but they don’t have that additional challenge of their gender being something that can typically inhibit people in believing in them for things. And so I think that is a huge challenge that we’re constantly having to navigate to figure out which one is it. And I think that the way that we can balance that, like I said, is number one, taking care of us, getting those people that surround you in love and peace, but also will keep it real with you, that keep it 100 with you, that will tell you the good, the bad, and the ugly. I feel like that’s necessary for anything that you’re doing to provide you that encouragement. But I will say that in understanding that dynamic, this is why it’s important for us to support each other. When I was growing up, we just didn’t support each other like that. Black women were, it was like, “Nah, I don’t know what she talking about, I’m not trying to do,” and then all of a sudden there was the Black Girl Magic movement, right? And we’re like, “Oh my God, yes, sis.” Like we’re celebrating each other. And that is so important because the world wants us to be separated because they know the power that we have in numbers, the power that we have when we come together, that unique aspect of how we can utilize and make changes is when we come together. 

[17:58] Cassandra: Yeah, and I’ll just sort of add to that as well. And thank you for lifting that up. I think before, it was this notion of like, and I can’t remember who said it specifically, but that you don’t want to be that one token black girl, or there’s only room for one black woman at the table. If another black woman comes in, “Oh, I need to work a little bit harder. I’m not going to give her access to such and such ’cause I don’t want her to be ahead of me or to show her to get promoted before me.” But I think that sort of culture has changed dynamically over the years. And now where I’m like, I think there was even like this thing on Instagram where an attorney had walked into the courtroom and it was like a black judge, a black DA, a black public defender. We’re like, just, yes. And so I think the culture has just shifted from like, oh, you know, just it being a competitive environment to being more like a nurturing and supportive environment. And I just love that real every time I see it. 

[18:48] Judge Parker: Black lady courtroom. 

[18:51] Cassandra: Yeah, that’s what it is. Black lady courtroom. 

[18:52] Judge Chess: I’ve had that just a few times.

[18:55] Judge Parker: I had one one time and we definitely sang the song.

[19:01] Judge Chess: Yeah, we sang the song. We looked around going. But one of the things I wanted to talk about is there’s a lot of books where white women in power will write. And I remember when Sheryl Stamberg wrote “Lean In.” And so one of my friends, she’s like, “Girl, I’m going to read that book.” And I’m like, “Why? Our ‘Lean In’ doesn’t look like they’re lean in.” And that’s our reality, right? As Judge Parker said earlier is if we come off certain ways, we are looked at as hostile. We are looked at something, we’re bitter this. I think also is when I talk to white women, particularly white judges, and I talk about my experiences, just like when I was a public defender and when I wouldn’t be led into rooms or people don’t think I’m a judge. Like I’ve married a couple and right after I married them, the groom said, “So you are a real judge?” I said, “Oh no, I just play one on TV.” And then I go, “You know.” And I kind of laughed it off, but I have had those questions. And I think that is something we as black women constantly, we have to think about the spaces we’re in before we’re even in the space. And then we have to navigate the space while we’re in it about what the perceptions will be. And then we’ve got to, you know, the mansplain, white women talk about, “Well, we get that mansplain, whitesplain.” So we’re kind of always having to negotiate our spaces on a regular basis because of what the perceptions are. And I think for some sisters that ends up making them get silent. They go inwards instead of coming outwards because they’re concerned about not moving up the ladder, not being successful. And I think it’s just the same in corporate America as it is on the campaign trail.

[20:58] Judge Parker: If I can, I just want to piggyback off of what Judge Chess said, ’cause I felt that in my chest, okay? That, you know, when I just graduated from law school at North Carolina Central University School of Law, I was in the Wake County DA’s office, which is in Raleigh, North Carolina, which is the county that I’m currently a judge in. I was the only black female in the entire DA’s office. And this is 2012 out of 45 lawyers. And so at that point, I didn’t want to stand out. I was afraid to be my authentic self. I had my hair relaxed. I had it, you know, with my wig on and like those kinds of things. Like I didn’t want to be judged for my job because of how I looked. And it wasn’t until I went to the attorney general’s office and I saw other black women who had their natural hair that I cut all mine off and I dyed it blonde and I big chopped it because I was no longer an Atwill employee. I just want everybody to know that as black women, it’s important for us to be our authentic self. When we get back to that mental health piece, right? That when we are running, that we can be our authentic self. I had my nose pierced. I had my hair locked for the last year and a half. Before that I had braids and wigs and whatever else I want to do. I was doing that every month, my hair was changing. And one of the judges said, one of the white judges said, “Do you change your hair with your mood?” And I was like, “You better hope not, baby.” You know, like I change it ’cause I want to. But I also wanted to show them that me being my authentic self does not mean that I’m not professional. And I think that as we continue to perpetuate that through social media or through whatever else, that women will feel more emboldened to put themselves in position, to run for office or to support someone who’s running for office that is proud of who they are and proud of their culture. 

[22:22] Stephanie: All the snaps, that was well worth saying. And I cannot let this moment go without asking you all because I don’t think that we have enough spaces to talk about the wellness in all aspects, physical, spiritual, mental, emotional for black women. So how do you all take care of yourselves to be able to show up in these amazing roles and responsibilities that you hold? What are your things that you do to take care of yourselves?

[22:54] Judge Parker: My faith is very important to me. So waking up in my devotion, listening to gospel. Sometimes I’m in the parking deck, like Jesus get me right before I go in here so I don’t snap, you know what I’m saying? I need to zen with the Lord before I get in there. But staying strong in my faith. I go to the gym constantly. People think I go to try to look good. No, baby, I go for my mental health. It’s my gym therapy. So that’s helpful for me. Additionally, my therapist. I love my therapist, highly recommend. And then the other thing that I’ve done is I’ve eliminated people and things that do not serve me. I think there’s so many times that we feel like we have to, you know, keep these same people around us. And I think we really need to prioritize our mental health and say, what is for me is for me. And anybody that is in my way that does not serve me has got to go. And when we do that, our mental health will be so much stronger. 

[23:35] Judge Chess: So Maya Angelou, she would say, I won’t let certain people in my house because they leave ugliness on my walls. And so I have learned in my 61 years of living is everybody’s not meant to stay in my life. I think as black women, we so many times think that we’re not in charge ’cause we have to pour out into other people, pour out and pour out. At some point I started saying, when is somebody going to pour into me? I need people who will pour into me. Like I talked about my campaign when people came because I didn’t think there were people out there who would pour into me, right? That’s how blocked I was. And once I opened up that blackness and said, there are people who will love on me who aren’t my family, that they will care about me and hope the very best and wanna see the very best for me. I think also for me, I have learned now to leave the country. I run this courthouse and I said, it’s not enough just to be out of Seattle. I need to be out of this country. I need to actually meet people who are not in the United States space, learn about other cultures, see other people grooving and moving. Some places I’ve gone, people have been in distress and I understand my blessings. I recently went to Ghana and I stood in a slave castle and my first reaction was, I would not have been able to bear this. But then I go, these are the ancestors that are part of my DNA. And then those who fall in the civil rights, they’re my DNA. Then I thought of my parents and my ancestors that are for me. And I go, I have it. I have it. It is built into my spirit. So I can get up when something pushes me back. I can be resilient. 

[25:39] Cassandra: Judge Chess, it’s hard to come after that. I felt myself tearing up. It’s a reminder of what black women go through, what our story is, just to get to that front, just to get to the head of that table. And I think for me, I definitely work out. I go to the gym and I feel like that’s the only place where I can unplug, especially during a presidential year. You’re working nonstop. You’re in the office 12 hours, sunup to sundown. I think it’s a way to block things out. But I think also today, I think I was really humbled. I’m the type of person to have a very bad habit of like, I can do it all. I can still have a dog, still clean my house, still go hang out with my friends, still drink water, still go to the gym, still go to Target, still go get everything done for work. And I’m like, after a while, like dishes were starting to pile up. Loads of clothes were starting to pile up. And I’m like, I’m going to get to it. I can do it. And I think God humbled me today. ‘Cause he was like, why are you still trying to do it all? Like, what have you not learned about that? And so I finally, one of my sores finally recommended a cleaning service for my house and I was able to rest and let them do the work. And I think my message today personally was just like, you know, stop trying. We know you can do it all, but you don’t have to. God didn’t put you there to do it all. Like you need to learn to rest and sit. And so I think that was my message today was a part of your mental health is sometimes letting other people do the work for you. 

[27:00] Stephanie: We all appreciate that because we can incorporate the regimens that you all are sharing. I have one final question. And then I know that we have one in our Q&A. Antioch University is built on the auspices of social justice. So we have a lot of folks here that identify as black that are probably snapping and amening to everything that you all have said. And we have colleagues that don’t. What would you say to our other colleagues and friends here that are allies and would like to support black women who are challenging existing power structures within democratic institutions? What would you like to see them do, be, or become in supporting you all or the representation of black women in political spaces? 

[27:51] Judge Parker: A voice. I had a white male judge come to me and it was right after George Floyd. And he came to my office and he said, “Ashley, what’s it like being a black female judge?” And I said, “Well, how much time do you have?” Well, let me give you all the abbreviated version. And I’m going to say that it is very challenging because I can see the disdain from attorneys and the public when I get up on the bench. So he said, “Well, what can I do?” I said, “Well, guess what? You’re in spaces that I will never be in, right? So in those spaces, I need you to be a voice. I need you to speak out for what’s right, for what’s wrong. Aside from race, I’m not asking you to do anything special. I’m asking you to do what’s right. And in those spaces, if you see an opportunity where you’re looking around the room and you see a lack of color, or you see a lack of gender, or you see a lack of experience or whatever else, speak up and say something and say, “You know what? I think there’s another voice that should be in this room.” And advocate for those voices to be in that space. Shirley Chisholm said, “If anyone will give you a seat at the table, you pull one up.” I like to be like Jesus and flip the table over sometimes, but I can’t do that if I’m not in the room. So please invite us into the room. 

[28:49] Judge Chess: So I will echo Judge Parker and say, I have been really directly honest with my white allies. Seattle is predominantly white. We’re considered a blue state, but I honestly started saying, “You guys are nice, nasty out here.” Not passive aggressive, nice, nasty. In other words, you show outwardly the signs of being supportive, but behind not so much once the doors close. And so as these elections have moved forward, what I kept saying is, particularly to my white women friends, is, “You all are the majority voters, but your numbers are not showing you’re being an ally, not even close.” And I said, “The expectations that black women will come and save you all needs to be dispensed. If you are going to talk it, then you need to walk it. If you say, ‘I want somebody who will do this or that or this,’ then you need to show it through your vote. You need to talk to your people ’cause if you’re truly an ally, you will use your voice, you will use your access, you will use your ability to network, to talk to those who are in the same spaces as you.” 

[30:07] Cassandra: I think for me, it’s just when black women are in charge, just make sure that you’re being supportive. Did you go the extra step? Like, “Hey, do you need anything?” Or are you under… You sometimes, I think people need to have that question with themselves, you know, “Am I undermining the work because I’m not in charge or it’s not my thought or my idea?” So I think sometimes, I think just when you’re saying you’re an ally, don’t say it just to say it. Like, are you actually being a supportive ally or a proactive ally? 

[30:36] Stephanie: Thank you all for that. That leads into one of our questions that came from our audience and Pia will ask that, and you may have a little more to add onto that. 

[30:46] Pia Alexander: Yes, definitely. So the first question in the Q&A, do you think that as black women who are underrepresented, that we need to do more for each other? For example, providing mentorship for those trying to follow in our footsteps?

[31:00] Judge Parker: Definitely, definitely. I think, and I say this with all due respect, we need to stop dying in positions of power and we need to start creating the legacy, right? And preparing people for the next role and not being afraid to go and retire and sit in peace. It’s okay to give up that power so that the next generation can have what they need to have. And we’re not doing that enough of that, right? We need to be identifying individuals. There was a black man that looked at me and said, “Ashley, you’re going to make a great judge one day.” That’s my mentor, my best friend, he’s my big brother. I need to be doing the same thing, pouring into another woman, another young black woman, or whoever it is, and saying, “Look, listen, I see something in you.” That is how we build up each other through that mentorship with intentionality. But like I said, we really need to stop sitting in roles for too long and we need to build up the next generation. 

[31:44] Cassandra: Yeah, I don’t have anything to add to that. I think Judge Parker said it all. As a black society, we have to learn to pass the baton. I think, especially in this political space, you’ll see, “Oh, someone was in this seat for 30, 40 years.” And then by the time they try to run again, the whole county or city is redistricted and then they have no chance of even winning that seat. We as black people have to learn to pass the baton because sometimes it’ll be too late and there’s no one standing behind you to pass it to. 

[32:10] Judge Chess: It’s just like the boxer. Sometimes it’s get out of the ring before they take you all the way out. That’s what I’ve seen in Seattle is some people have stayed too long and then they got taken out in an election and they had not anointed their next person, right? 

[32:28] Stephanie: We would like to thank you all so much for this rich conversation. We had someone write saying that you all kept it real, kept it 100. I would expect nothing less in terms of the title. We wish you all all the best in the work that you all are doing for our communities to keep them safe, to keep them vibrant, to keep them equitable. And please know that you all have friends at Antioch University. We are just incredibly grateful and appreciative and keep us on your mind in terms of what you’re doing. Let us know how we can support you all in terms of this work. Like we’ve been saying in every one of these initiatives and events, make sure you get out and vote. 
[33:17] Nastasia: You can learn more about this event and the entire Antioch Works for Democracy initiative on the Antioch Works for Democracy website. We’ll include a link in our show notes. We’ll also include a link to the YouTube recording of the full unedited video of the event. We post these show notes on our website, theseedfield.org, where you’ll also find full episode transcripts, prior episodes, and more. The Seed Field Podcast is produced by Antioch University. I’m the show’s editor, Nastassia Green. Our usual host is Jasper Nighthawk. Our web content coordinator is Jen Montt. Our work study interns are Stephanie Paredes, Lauren Arianzale, Grace Kurfman, Danny LaPointe, Liza Wisner, Tawana Shambly, Natalie Obando, and Diana Dinerman. We received additional production help from Karen Hamilton, Amelia Bryan, Adrienne Applegate, Jamila Gaskin, Harold Hale, Margaret Morgan, Lorraine Alexandre, and Melinda Garland. Thank you for spending your time with us today. That’s it for this episode. We hope to see you next time. And don’t forget to plant a seed, sow a cause, and win a victory for humanity. From Antioch University, this has been The Seed Field Podcast.