S8 E4: Antioch’s Incoming President Says “This Is Our Moment”

[Note: this transcript has been lightly edited for readability.]

Lori Varlotta [00:00 – 01:10] – We can say, here’s how we practice democracy at Antioch. Here’s the community-based learning we’re doing. Here’s the research that we’re doing. Here’s why our MBA focuses on the triple line of people, profit and planet. Here’s why that makes sense. Here’s why our school of ed curriculum is designed by practitioners for practitioners. In other words, let’s center the good work that we do in the real world. It can be an antidote for the erosion of democracy to say we are here to teach it. We’re never going to get it done perfectly. But we’re readying our students to be a part of democracy right this minute when it’s under attack. I think it is a really important space to be in. And it’s a space that Antioch already has held, and I think can be more deliberate and explicit about owning, if I can be that blunt. This is a space that Antioch can own in terms of the teaching and the doing of democracy. And I really am excited to work with faculty and staff to highlight the great democratic education that they’re doing in the real world and real communities. Let’s put ourselves out there as a model.

Jasper Nighthawk [01:10 – 02:52] – This is the Seed Field Podcast, the show where Antiochians share their knowledge, tell their stories, and come together to win victories for humanity. I’m your host, Jasper Nighthawk, and today we’re joined by Antioch University’s incoming president, Lori Varlotta, for a conversation about what makes Antioch special, her experiences and wisdom drawn from decades as a leader in higher education and the challenges and opportunities that she, as our next university leader, sees for our institution during a time when colleges and universities across the U.S. are being pressured and threatened in unprecedented ways. We’re actually planning to release this episode at the exact same time that we’ll be making the big announcement that Lori is Antioch University’s next president. So I’m really excited to be able to use this podcast to give people a chance to get to know Lori a little bit better. And I think it’s a sign of Lori’s open leadership style and hands-on approach that she reached out and asked to appear on the Seed Field podcast right here at the beginning of her work at Antioch. I’m excited to have this chance to pick her brain, and I hope this conversation helps all of the people listening to get to know Lori in a more conversational way. Before I introduce her, I do want to say that because Lori won’t be officially taking the reins for several more months, I’m not going to be asking any nuts and bolts questions about specific programs or policies that she’ll be pursuing. We’d love to have her back on the show in six months or a year to talk about those specifics. But today, we’re going to focus on her big picture vision as a higher education leader, and we’re going to hear about what she thinks about Antioch’s potential and also how her life and experiences have prepared her to meet this moment. Okay, let me quickly introduce Lori. Lori Varlotta is the incoming president of Antioch University, and she will also serve as executive vice president of the Coalition for the Common Good. She’s the past president of both California Lutheran University in Thousand Oaks, California, and of Hiram College in Ohio. She holds a PhD in educational leadership from Miami University, and in addition to her work as a university leader, she’s published extensively in both scholarly venues, and more general audience publications about higher education, student success, and leadership. With all that, Lori, welcome to the Seed Field Podcast. 

Lori [02:52 – 02:54] – It’s so great to be here. Thanks for having me. 

Jasper [02:55 – 03:34] – So to start off, I always like to ask guests as much as they’re comfortable to disclose their positionality. And I especially think that’s useful when it’s relevant to what we’re discussing. So in our case, we’re going to talk about Antioch University, which is a really diverse institution. So from the start, I want to be clear about where I’m coming to this conversation from. I’m white. I’m a cisgendered man. I’m queer. I’m not living with a physical disability, but I do experience anxiety and depression, and I have since I was a kid. I have a college degree and a master’s, and I have steady housing and steady income. Lori, I’ll pass it over to you as much as you’re comfortable. Where are you coming from? 

Lori [03:34 – 04:53] – Thanks for that question. I see myself as an identity border crosser. I really have resisted for pragmatic reasons, you know, using typical boxes to talk about my identity. I was born into a very low income working class family, and those values shaped me tremendously. And yet today, I have had the luxury of having three degrees and having a very strong income. So it’s hard for me to really identify myself on the SES scale, for example. I spent my adult life in all kinds of relationships with men and women. I’m partnered with a man now who I’m legally married to, but yet I see myself as very much a part of the LGBT community. And one of my most important relationships was a woman with whom I’m still best friends. I was born as a Catholic and have been on a faith journey all of my life and find spirituality so important, but yet I’m not a particular part of a religious sect, so to speak, though a strong believer I am. So it’s really interesting when I look at my own notions of identity. I want to have conversations about it, not shy away. But I do really resist putting single labels on my identity, not to be difficult, but just to be a reminder that identity is fluid. And for better or worse, I’m a really strong living example of that. 

Jasper [04:53 – 05:13] – No, I love that. It’s intersectional and it’s like evolutional. It embraces complexity. So thank you for sharing that. And I want to hear more about your background. But first, I thought we should jump straight into talking about why you’re excited to lead Antioch in this moment. What is it that’s drawn you to take on this big and frankly challenging job? 

Lori [05:13 – 06:42] – Well, the job is so exciting for two reasons. Number one, it’s the only position I applied to that has dual roles. I have the opportunity to serve as the chief executive officer of a very interesting university. This isa national university with campuses all over the country, three on the West Coast, one in the Midwest, one in the East Coast. It offers all kinds of interesting programs to adult students who will become the new norm in higher education. So I’m really drawn to the structure. I’m drawn— as who wouldn’t be—to Antioch’s, you know, almost two-century year-old mission: winning victories for humanities and democracy . Now more than ever, and I suspect we’re going to get into it as a time where educational institutions must translate theory to practice, particularly around democracy. And it’s been Antioch’s mission, as I said, for 170 years. Couple that with the whole Coalition for the Common Good as a brand new structure, that’s going to allow smaller undergraduate institutions to create pathways to graduate programs like the ones at Antioch. This notion of a coalition brings students together to work—not only towards careers—but for the common good and for a better world. It just seems like a wonderful opportunity. I can use one of my skill sets that’s somewhat tried and true. And yet I want to allow myself to be the lifelong learner, the curious person I am, as I enter in this whole new field of college coalition building. I’m really excited to do both. 

Jasper [06:42 – 07:37] – Yeah. And I love that you bring up the coalition for the common good, which for listeners, it’s still a relatively new thing. It was officially incorporated in 2023, but it’s this university system that was founded by Antioch University and Otterbein University. And I think what people might not know is that Antioch is serving as the graduate institution for the coalition. So the plan, at least for now, is that other colleges will join the coalition and that they will have pathways into Antioch programs. And Antioch has already been expanding, starting a new graduate nursing school that is taking on graduate programs from Otterbein University. I wonder, in these times where there are a lot of challenges facing universities and colleges, even before we get to actions the federal government has been taking here in 2025, what it is about this model that seems exciting to you? 

Lori [07:37 – 08:51] – Well, I should start by saying that early in my career, I was a student of John Dewey. He was the American pragmatist with whom I had a really strong conceptual connection. And I won’t bore our listeners with Dewey’s philosophy. But, he was an American philosopher who wanted and expected the aims of education to be on the promotion of the common good in a democracy that worked for real people. Dewey centered his own philosophy and his own thinking and doing around student-centered learning. He encouraged students to use their everyday environments as the text, as the environment for learning. It’s so aligned with Horace Mann. It’s also aligned with Antioch’s model: that education that works for democracy, doing community-based programs, having applied programs. And again, programs that don’t only bring advantage to the individual learner, but help the individual learner make a positive contribution to the community. It’s a wonderful way for me to circle back to my own philosophical beginnings as a student and have a great opportunity to work with a university that has prided itself on that and has the applied programs that bring this vision to life. 

Jasper [08:51 – 09:15] – Yeah, I love that enthusiasm and tying it back to John Dewey and also Horace Mann. That makes a lot of sense to me. And to get into a little bit more specifics, in the video where you kind of introduce yourself to the Antioch community, you talk about some of the qualities that you see in Antiochians. You describe them as committed, curious, and courageous. I’m curious why you chose those three adjectives. 

Lori [09:16 – 11:06] – I did. I see Antiochians as being committed, again, largely through the application of theory to practice. One of the things that I’ve learned in my 40 years of higher education, that some of the smartest people aren’t necessarily the most pragmatic or the most earnest about making changes for real people in real life. So I love the fact that Antiochians take seriously the actionable embodiment of values into the real world. And that’s what I see as their commitment. I love the fact that there is a curiosity at Antioch. Here, faculty don’t see themselves primarily as the “sage on the stage,” but rather the “guide on the side.” They’re inviting students to be a part of the knowledge acquisition and knowledge generation. There’s a real equity in that type of pedagogy: where faculty know that they definitely have gifts and perspectives and knowledge to bring, but they’re open and curious to hear what their students and each other have to say. That seems to be a real marker of Antiochian pedagogy. This notion of being courageous is now more important than ever. Antioch’s very mission (victories for humanity and democracy in action)is being questioned by the federal government and by other naysayers. Rather than back down or talk about things in more general ways,. I think that this is Antioch’s moment to stand up and say:“yes, we’ve been about this since our beginning. We’ve always been about it.” And we’re sure as heck going to continue to be about it, in this particular moment as democracy itself is under siege. So I think there’s a great courageousness about that. Not only walking the talk, but talking about what Antioch stands for…for talking about what we’re doing, not just what we’re teaching. So I think that those three C’s are apt descriptors of the university that I can’t wait to be a part of. 

Jasper [11:06 – 11:42] – It’s so exciting hearing you talk about this. And I feel like you really get Antioch because you keep bringing up like learner-centered education. And I like that the guide on the side versus the sage on the stage. I wanted to back up just slightly though, because I noticed when you said committed, curious, and courageous, and it’s obviously this alliteration. It reminded me of an article that you had published some years ago about the power of branding things, using alliteration and other mnemonic devices to kind of get people on board. I wonder if you could talk a little bit about that. 

Lori [11:42 – 12:54] – Yeah, I’ve been making jokes that as soon as I hit 40, I would need to use mnemonic devices, including alliteration, to keep myself and my listeners and my readers focused. It sounds a little corny. But the power of language is just astonishing to me. If we can find authentic words that stick in people’s minds, I think it really helps them think about and mull over the message that we’re trying to send. So I’m not embarrassed to say that it is a little campy, and it’s a little corny. But I try hard to think of the kinds of things that people will remember. And the three C’s that I’ve attached to Antiochians are C’s that are so important right now. And I hope that these Cs will be something that we can get excited together about. We can come together and see ourselves in this way. There’s a lot that we could be overwhelmed about, disappointed about, but I think that these characteristics are ones that are genuinely attributed to the people of Antioch University. And that’s why I thought using the three C’s would be a simple, but again, a genuine way to talk about and remind people of some of the markers that really make us distinct. 

Jasper [12:54 – 13:21] – Thank you for sharing that. And I appreciate that you’re also kind of like directing your focus outward at the people who already make up Antioch University and who, as you say, you’re excited to join. But I don’t want the focus to totally come off you. So I was hoping that you could share a little bit about your background and the path that led you to become a university leader and eventually a university president. This will be your third time serving as president of a university? 

Lori [13:22 – 15:24] – Yeah, I got into higher education, mainly because I wanted students to have a different experience than I did. I felt so grateful that I got a scholarship to go to the University of Notre Dame. But I really was an outsider there. I didn’t have the language of otherness. Today, I use it, but somewhat reluctantly, at times. I didn’t even have the language of being a first generation student, either. But there was something about the environment at Notre Dame that didn’t speak to me. I didn’t find my people there. I was intellectually stimulated in the classroom, and again, I was just so incredibly grateful that I had an opportunity to go to a private university and get a degree in philosophy. Still, there was something really missing from my undergraduate sense of ‘community” broadly writ. And as soon as I graduated, I realized that that was a piece of my experience. While I made really good friends with several people outside of the classroom, I just didn’t connect as much as I could have to the mission and the ethos of the place. And I was wondering, how could I help other students who might feel that disconnect? How could I help them find the pieces and the parts of the university community that spoke to them and allowed them to be their best self? So I got into higher ed to improve something that wasn’t as positive for me as I wish it would have been, as opposed to reinforcing an experience I had. And it became a really good launch pad for me continuing to work inside and outside the classroom, for me to keep an open mind about what students are experiencing. So if there’s anything that I’m most proud about in terms of my career, it’s that my time, and my energy, were largely student focused. Students are the reasons that we come together. They’re our primary audience. Education is largely but not exclusively about them. And my entry into the field of student affairs helped me really develop and maintain a sense of student-centeredness that has served me well in all of my positions, most importantly, my presidential ones. 

Jasper [15:25 – 15:53] – I like that example of the foundational myth, the origin story of having a hard time finding your place at Notre Dame. And I think a lot of people would take that experience and say, I am done with colleges and universities. Let me go find my place where I fit in better. And it’s just notable to me that your instinct was the opposite. It was like, how do I make this experience better for students than what I had? 

Lori [15:53 – 16:32] – I realized so much that that experience was going to open doors to me. And again, my parents were blue-collar working-class, folks, first generation in this country. They had the wherewithal and the energy to sacrifice to help me get to college. I knew that I would be better off; education was going to be somewhat of an equalizer for me. So I wanted to make sure that I could make that experience as positive for people like me, even though I didn’t have the language for what “like me” meant. On the surface, I looked somewhat like the people at Notre Dame, but I couldn’t have come from a more different world than most of my classmates. 

Jasper [16:32 – 16:40] – So you worked in student services and you ended up spending a long time at Sacramento State here in California, right? 

Lori [16:40 – 16:40] – I did. 

Jasper [16:41 – 16:52] – What made you choose to become a university president? I mean, obviously, it’s not an opportunity that’s extended to everybody, but it’s also certainly something you have to seek out and take. 

Lori [16:52 – 18:03] – Along with being student-centered, I’ve always been change-oriented. And for better or worse,—perhaps my faculty colleagues might roll their eyes when I say this—. A lot of change comes from staff and administrative positions. There are a lot of comings and goings with staff, presidential leaders, and other senior leaders at many campuses. So I saw the presidential post as being one where I could affect change. Where, I could, you know, have the influence to mobilize really creative ideas, get people on board, and reinforce and double down on the things that were working on a campus and bring change to areas that needed to be stretched or reexamined, etc. And I saw that doing it from the presidential post versus other posts at the universities made the most sense for me. My brothers would say that I gravitated to the post because I’m the oldest and I was the bossy big sister. I would like to think that while I am very directive, I’m not necessarily bossy. They would tell you perhaps say something different. But I do really thrive in situations where I can help float ideas and mobilize ideas and garner support. And I thought that the presidential post would be a great place to do those kinds of things. 

Jasper [18:03 – 18:48] – It’s notable to me also, you mentioned your brother saying, calling you like a bossy big sister. But in the ranks of university presidents, it’s still an area that is majority men holding these posts. And I know that at Hiram College and at Cal Lutheran, you were the first female leader that either of those institutions had had. And while that’s not going to be the case here at Antioch, we’ve had two female chancellors. although those have both been in the 21st century, I think. Before that, there were like 25 men who were the presidents and chancellors of Antioch. But I’m curious what your own experience has been as a woman leading big institutions in a society that I think most of us acknowledge is still really sexist. 

Lori [18:48 – 20:38] – You know, I didn’t experience, or at least I wasn’t cognizant of any discrimination at all when I was coming through the ranks in my first, you know, 30 years in the field. In fact, I think that my gender helped me as a young woman. I was seen as promising and bright. So I just felt really fortunate that I was able to couple my experience and the opportunities with my credentials and make my way quote “up the career ladder” as a mid manager. But when I got to the senior level, it did become different. As the first female, I realized that there was a stereotype of what a president looks like, how a president presents himself, what the communication style was. So there were times, in my senior leadership roles, particularly at Cal Lutheran, where I was told that my direct style was aggressive versus assertive, and that my confidence could come across as being very self centered , you know, self aware. Something more negatively associated with self awareness and confidence that might have been the case if I was a man. But I’m often told, and I know that this is the case, that my very direct, no-nonsense, get-to-the-bottom-line style of communication, does sometimes take over when I’m running meetings. It suggests to people that because I’m that way, that because I am very analytical, that I’m not relationship-oriented. So what I want people to hear from me early on, before I even get to Antioch, I am direct. I am no nonsense. I am results oriented. But please don’t mistake, for a single second, that I don’t care about people, that I don’t care about feelings. What comes natural to me is this tone probably that I have right now where it’s pretty direct, it’s not light and fluffy, but don’t mistake that for being uncaring. 

Jasper [20:39 – 21:31] – Yeah, I was interested when I was preparing for this conversation. I read your piece in the Chronicle of Higher Education called Lipstick Leadership. And I appreciated you talking about there is this double standard that female leaders, I mean, transparently are held to. And there are even words like bossy that are almost exclusively applied to women who are directive. But I think you also say in this piece, which we’ll link to in the show notes here, but that you had received this feedback from somebody running one of these presidential searches that you needed to care about your appearance a little bit more and also that you needed to take into consideration that your tone might be too directive and that you kind of took those like maybe there is a grain of truth in there that I should be listening to. I don’t know if you have anything to add on that front. 

Lori [21:32 – 22:50] – Yeah, there’s more than a grain of truth in it. And what I want to remind folks is that, while in my case, I can definitely be direct and analytical and no-nonsense. That doesn’t mean that I’m not listening. That doesn’t mean that I don’t care. That doesn’t mean that I’m not really thinking about what you’re saying. Sometimes, when those three adjectives get mapped onto a female president or CEO, then listeners or constituents think, well, if she’s all of those things, then she’s definitely not these things. There are artificial dichotomies at play: that if one is analytical, they’re not relationship oriented. If one is direct, they’re not open to hearing other people’s opinions. If one is rational, that they don’t value human emotion. And what I’m saying is, again, as a good student of John Dewey, those are false dichotomies. I’m both things. And even the way I answered the (first) question about my identity, I’m a both/and kind of person. And I don’t mean it to be cliche or quick witted. Most of us are both/and. So, I really want people to hear this style of speaking. But please remember what I’m saying. Don’t be misled to think that more visible traits erase other attributes that are lesser known or less visible. They are there as well. 

Jasper [22:50 – 23:03] – Yeah, I appreciate that both-and quality, I think it’s a positive thing in a leader. And we certainly need both an analytical approach and a relationship-driven approach. So that sounds good to me. 

Lori [23:03 – 23:50] – Well, good. I hope it sounds good to other people. This is why it’ll be important for me— early in my tenure at Antioch— to get around to the campuses. I’m really excited about doing some visits and having some face-to-face conversations and small group discussions. Relationships can be maintained on Zoom, but I learned, the hard way at Cal Lutheran, that they can’t be built or forged on Zoom very easily. So, I would imagine the first three or four months of my tenure will be getting to see people and inviting people to the campuses if they live and work near where the five campuses are located. I would really like my relationships to grow out of personal interactions and then be maintained in the virtual environment. But I want to start face-to-face if I can. 

Jasper [23:50 – 24:29] – And I want to get to your excitement about Antioch, what some of the things that you foresee in your tenure, but you referenced one of the things that you feel like got off on the wrong foot with Cal Lutheran was over Zoom. And people might be listening to this and thinking, that’s a residential campus. What are you talking about? But I know you started at Cal Lutheran during the COVID pandemic, which seems like an interesting, I mean, that was a challenging time for all of us, but an especially interesting time to be an incoming university president. I was curious if we could start talking about your tenure as a university leader, talking about some of the things that you were proudest of in your work at Cal Lutheran and also at Hiram College. Thanks. 

Lori [24:29 – 28:09] – I came to Hiram in 2014. So I had been in the field for about 30 years at that point. I had really relished the fact that my career had been successful. Frankly, I had, in my opinion, and I think in the opinions of others, left every position and every campus better than I found them. And that was the experience at Hiram as well. I came at a perilous point of a financial situation. The campus was falling down the cliff in terms of financial stability. And I worked with the board and with a wonderful cabinet (both of whom I’m still in touch with) to refinance their long-term debt, get the institution on financial ground.

 I was there for six and a half years. So before I made major changes to the curriculum with the cadre of faculty and the college dean, which is the chief academic officer, I had a chance to build relationships. So the hard decisions that I and my team needed to make at Hiram were grounded in personal relationships that I had built with the 80 full-time faculty at that point. And with the 100 or 150 staff on that small campus, We knew each other personally. So we made lots of decisions in terms of rebranding the institution and morphing some majors to minors, combining majors and actually doing away with majors, adding majors. 

And, by and large, difficult though those decisions were, they were well received. I think they were also well received because during my six years, each of those years were record fundraising ones. There were six consecutive years of the highest fundraising ever at the campus. So, when I contrast those first 35 years in the field with my time at Cal Lutheran, Cal Lutheran was an anomaly. 

And I want to be the first to say some of this, because people will Google me. And they’ll see this, and I’ll talk about it when I come to the various AU campuses. It was a rocky road at Cal Lutheran. I arrived on campus at the height of the pandemic. The campus was in complete lockdown when I arrived on September 1st, 2020. They had been in “shut down” since the March before. 

I inherited a staff, a good senior staff, none of whom I’d ever met before, except in the interview. I didn’t know anyone. And literally on the first day, the CFO told me that there was a $23.5 million shortfall in revenues and expenses compared to any year in the past. They were $23 million below where they had anticipated being, and the board would like me to mitigate, to the extent possible, that shortfall by the fall meeting. It wasn’t a do or die, but board members are, understandably, fiduciaries. Their job is to have financial stability. 

One of their early charges to me was to mitigate this shortfall. This meant that within the first few days, not the first months, not even the first weeks, I had to entertain the notion and work with my team to design and implement furloughs and layoffs and the pause of retirement. We were doing all of that on Zoom, because no one’s back at work yet. And the first thing that the campus hears from the brand new president, is: “Hi, I’m so glad to be here. Oh, and by the way, we have to do 66 furloughs and 17 layoffs… everybody’s going to experience a 10% pause in retirement contribution, taking it to zero.”

Well, it’s hard to recover from all of that. And I didn’t recover. I got a vote of no confidence while I was there. Again, this was anomalous to me. I’d never been ill-received on any of my former campuses. But for those reasons and others, which we’ll talk about later when I get there, this is what happened. Today is not necessarily a time to dwell on that. I’m sad that it happened. I’m disappointed that it happened. But the context in which it happened would be a context that I think very few leaders would be able to navigate much differently, frankly, than I did. 

Jasper [28:09 – 28:22] – Yeah, that sounds like a pretty tremendous welcome to say, oh, we’re so glad you’re here. And let me just tell you before you come in the door, you have a $23 million budget deficit, and you’re going to need to fix that in the next handful of days. 

Lori [28:22 – 28:59] – Well, in the next six weeks, you know, to say, “The October board meeting is mid-October. Ease and mitigate the deficit as much as you can by the October board meeting. Let’s talk about how the budget can get closer to a balance.” So again, that was the context. That’s not the context at Antioch. I know that Antioch is going through some decision making right now and is making some difficult announcements. And I really give credit to the current administrative team. They are making some difficult decisions so that a new president doesn’t inherit a situation, where from day one, she needs to make some really hard decisions before getting to know the campus. 

Jasper [28:59 – 29:13] – Yeah, I certainly, as an Antioch employee, like really want, I really want you to succeed. And I hope you’re better set up to succeed in this job to be a really powerful leader than it sounds like you were set up to be there. I 

Lori [29:13 – 30:09] – hope so. And I learned, you know, the context was definitely a large part, I believe, of the difficult navigation. But my strengths are also my Achilles heels. I worked quickly. I focused on the direct problem in front of me, which was financial. This obscured, somewhat, the relationship problems that the campus had. I didn’t cause them, but there were relationship and cultural issues at my arrival. And because I was confronted with the financial issue, a lot of my time and energy went there. And I should have been more diffuse, frankly, in expending my energy. I should have been spending as much time helping to fix the culture as I was trying to fix the financial situation. So: pacing myself, getting to know the campus, building relationships are things some of the lessons learned. They’re lessons that I’d learned all through my other jobs, but it was a reminder of what happens if you don’t spend time in those areas. I’m hoping not to have that same situation. And I’m sure I won’t in Antioch. 

Jasper [30:09 – 30:35] – Well, I appreciate you reflecting on things you might have done differently too, and things that you learned. And I mean, we’re lucky that you had that experience, although I’m sure it was unpleasant for you to grow in those ways too. I wanted to ask though, I know that you also like you do have some achievements at Cal Lutheran and I know you founded a department of DEI and you invested in things like shared governance and fundraising. Can you talk a little bit about those things? 

Lori [30:36 – 32:35] – Yeah. One of my biggest points of pride from Cal Lutheran is that we created a new division called Talent, Culture and Diversity. The ELCA, which is the Lutheran Church that Cal Lutheran is a part of, is a very progressive liberal Christian church. It values inclusivity and diversity. I mean, it’s part of their mantra and their actions. I wove DEIJ into culture broadly writ. In other words, the vice president of culture, diversity and inclusion oversaw mission and identity and oversaw HR.

So, it was the chief diversity officer who was working with HR to make sure that we were continuing to do the great job we had already been doing in diversifying our faculty and staff. We were a majority minority-serving student body. 60% of our students at Cal Lutheran, our students of color, kudos to the provost and others there. Before I got there and while I was there, we greatly diversified our tenure track faculty, doubled it in a few short years, largely due to efforts that started before me and that we were able to bolster while I was there. So, we made good on the notion of marrying DEIJ to HR and marrying it to the mission. Again, the Lutheran church was part of the mission. So, we married DEIJ to the values of the Church:curiosity and generosity, inclusion and diversity and service to neighbor. This structure was a wonderful way to marry Lutheran values to DEIJ. 

Our DEIJ mantra was, you know, we’re calling in, not calling out. We are basing our programs on generosity, not on shame and blame. All of that really resonated with the church. And it was a beautiful, I think, integration. Where DEIJ was centered in the infrastructure of the campus, connected to the Mission and Identity office and HR. It wasn’t just a vertical silo. Rather than have the “people, whoever they are, people over there” do the DEIJ work, we—these three very important divisions—have come together to center DEIJ. And I’m really proud of the structure that came to life under my leadership at Cal Lutheran. 

Jasper [32:35 – 33:28] – Thank you for sharing that. And I love that idea of calling in, not calling out, because I think a lot of people in our very white hot political moment have felt that sometimes they’re being called out or called names and accused of being a bad person as part of these efforts. And I know a couple of weeks ago, I had the chance to interview Antioch’s vice chancellor for equity, culture and belonging, Stephanie Helms Pickett. And we were talking about much these same things where DEI has been questioned and now is being formally attacked by the federal government. There remain these tensions that need to be resolved, is this something that is making people feel that they are being attacked? Or are they being called out? Or are they being called in? So that framing just makes a lot of sense to me. And I like how you attached it to the values of the university. 

Lori [33:28 – 34:23] – Now more than ever, as DEIJ is coming under attack, there’s no other way to put it, by leaders at the highest level. Universities need to stand firm to what we believe. When we center DEIJ in our values, it becomes even more hard to erase. Also, rather than highlight everything we’re resisting, we need to talk about what we are arguing for. Explaining what DEIJ is aiming for—that’s really important. And Antioch does a great job of telling the world what we stand for and what we’re doing, as opposed to positioning ourselves against things. And I think that that’s a powerful strategy that this AU administration has used. What do we stand for? Let’s have the courage to stand up and speak out for what we believe in rather than what we are opposed to. I call it “poking the bear.” Let’s not poke the bear. Let’s show the world what we’re doing and the positive impact that we’re having. 

Jasper [34:24 – 34:30] – I like that: not poking the bear. It’s like, we’re not trying to start a fight. No, we’re not backing down. We’re not backing down on our core values. 

Lori [34:31 – 35:12] – We’re not going up to poke something just to agitate. This is who we are. This is the good that comes out of who we are. Here are the actions that we are engaging in. And here’s the impact of those actions. I think we focus on that, and I know others are feeling the same way. Let’s focus on what we stand for, what we’re doing and the impact of our actions. That is more efficient and more effective with this national administration than protesting. I mean, there is a very  important place for protest and civil disobedience in democracy. I’m very much aware of that. These might not be the best strategies, however, for getting those “on the fence” to see the good work that is coming out of programs like DEIJ. 

Jasper [35:13 – 35:21] – It’s also, I think, harder for institutions to engage in civil disobedience. Like that’s very much a tactic for the individual citizen. 

Lori [35:21 – 35:22] – Yes, I think so.

Jasper [35:22 – 35:38] – I’m glad that you brought this around to Antioch and our current political moment. And I know in your video announcement where you kind of give a little speech, you say this is our moment as Antioch. And I wonder if you could expand on that a little bit. Why do you feel like this is our moment? 

Lori [35:38 – 37:23] – As frightening and dispiriting as this moment is, and now I am talking about things that are going on in the federal government, the extraordinary polarization of the world and of the U.S., this is Antioch’s moment. Antioch can help bring back respect for diversity, for civility, for democracy done right—the messy practice of it all. We can spread our wings as a national model to say “when it comes to democracy, practice makes progress. It never makes perfect.”  It’s like yoga, right? I mean, we’re not going to get it exactly right. We’re not going to be perfect. We can say, here’s how we practice democracy at Antioch. Here’s the community-based learning we’re doing. Here’s the research that we’re doing. Here’s why our MBA focuses on the triple line of people, profit and planet. Here’s why that makes sense. Here’s why our school of ed curriculum is designed by practitioners for practitioners. In other words, let’s center the good work that we do in the real world. It can be an antidote for the erosion of democracy to say we are here to teach it. We’re never going to get it done perfectly. But we’re readying our students to be a part of democracy right this minute when it’s under attack. I think it is a really important space to be in. And it’s a space that Antioch already has held, and I think can be more deliberate and explicit about owning, if I can be that blunt. This is a space that Antioch can own in terms of the teaching and the doing of democracy. And I really am excited to work with faculty and staff to highlight the great democratic education that they’re doing in the real world and real communities. Let’s put ourselves out there as a model.

Jasper [37:23 – 38:23] – Yeah. And I like how you tie that back to what we’re doing out there in communities. And it kind of ties back to what we were talking about at the beginning of this conversation about the way that Antioch has historically been grounded in learner-centered and experience-based learning models and not just passively receiving ideas in the classroom. but also going out there and having experiences, doing field studies, doing projects in community. And you publish something on your blog, which we’ll link to. You publish this piece on your blog titled Experiential Adult Education, Living and Practicing Democracy in Higher Learning. And I was hoping, I mean, we’ve been discussing these things on this show around our university, especially through the Antioch Works for Democracy initiative. But I was hoping you could talk a little bit about the ways that higher education can go beyond career preparation and actually help prepare people to be part of a thriving democracy. 

Lori [38:23 – 40:50] – Sure. Again, one of the things that drew me to Antioch was this notion that Antioch prepares students to forge and develop a common good, not just their career. Though I am not Lutheran by birth, when I look back at my Lutheran education, I really gravitated to their values. The Lutherans say that a calling is when an individual connects his or her passion to what the world needs now. I just think that that’s beautiful. That is something I really want to highlight at Antioch. 

Through the teaching of democracy and the teaching of related skills, we’re saying to students that much of their work at Antioch is experiential. It’s applied; it’s in real communities; it’s working at organizations that they’re already in: whether it’s community orgs or PTAs, or even their kids’ athletic teams. They’re applying theory to these real life situations…microcosms of larger communities. And I think these are great ways to practice democracy…how do I listen to people that are different than me? How do I garner interest around this part of a topic, even though we disagree on other parts?

Democracy is really messy. It’s hard. And figuring out how to coalesce around the points where there could be some commonalities is important. It doesn’t erase the difference. But I think that coalescing around commonalities is something that Antioch students get to practice in their high impact courses and their high impact group work. One of the pivots that I’ve been making in the last year or so is I’ve spent much of my life being a service learning advocate for traditional education at the undergrad level. But as I’m doing my research now, I realize adult students are even more primed to do service learning and community-based research because they’re bringing their real lives to the experience. They’ve been in the workforce. They’ve often raised families. They’ve had to lead groups at work that may not get along, members who have differences or their HOAs. Maybe they are caring for others, as I said in my blog, in a hospital system that they are trying to navigate. These adult students are especially ready to apply theory to practice in building a democracy because they see where it’s failed in their own lives. We live here in America. And as flawed as America is, it still is—for most of us— the best place to be, to live, and  to try to improve, even though there’s lots of improving that we need to do. 

Jasper [40:50 – 41:41] – Yeah. And I love that you brought up the adult learners, because I think one of the great things about the way that Antioch has expanded and expanded its low residency and online models allows students to remain in their communities while they pursue their graduate education. And what that means is that for myself, when I had to do a field study for my MFA, I was able to do it and it would tie it into the work that I was already doing in schools, being a poetry teacher and making further connections through this school project. And that always resonates with me as one of the superpowers of low residency and online only education is that people just don’t have to relocate to a residential campus, but can remain embedded in their communities. 

Lori [41:42 – 42:38] – I think low residency is a brilliant model. I was introduced to it in my mid-career when some of my colleagues were going to Colorado State University for their EdD. They were part of a low residency program. They came together at the beginning of the semester, got to know each other, built bonds through a week-long institute. They studied together, ate together and socialized with each other. Then, they went back to their various communities. And it just seemed to work really well in terms of a learning community. And I’m excited to be a part of that model at Antioch. I believe this will be the model of the future. We know that high residency programs, and frankly, a lot of the other conventional structures of higher education need to be tweaked or revised significantly. So, improving this low model residency is another space where Antioch can really shine. And I’m really excited to work with my colleagues there to get that part of Antioch to its next level of excellence. You’re already doing a good job, and it can even be better. 

Jasper [42:38 – 42:48] – Yeah. So we’re almost out of time here. I wanted to ask you when you assume the presidency right now, you’re scheduled, that’s going to be August 15th. What are you most excited about? 

Lori [42:49 – 43:51] – I’m most excited about the people. I am looking forward to going to the different campuses and getting a sense of the comings and goings, of meeting people face to face, of figuring out how to lead remotely. During my interview, I said I’ve worked remotely, but I’ve never led remotely. So this is going to be new for me. And I’m excited to learn from others about how do you lead remotely. How do you build and maintain authentic relationships?  I want to do as much as possible early in face to face encounters. Then, it’s going to be a whole new world in figuring out how to be a leader of national schools that are spread out around the country. And I’m excited about the challenge. And I’m excited about to be part of a model that’s going to become more and more common in the future: to learn from people here who have been a part of this model for many years. But it is the people. I have a sense of what the ethos here is, but I will have a stronger sense when I get to talk with and be in people’s presence. And I think that that’s really going to help me acclimate all the more quickly. 

Jasper [43:51 – 43:55] – I love that, Lori. Well, thank you so much for taking the time to talk with us today. 

Lori [43:55 – 43:57] – It was a real, real pleasure. Thanks, Jasper, for having me on. 

Jasper [44:00 – 45:18] – You can learn more about Lori on the incoming president page on Antioch’s website. That has her official bio, her CV, and the video introducing her as our next president. We’ll include a link to that in our show notes. And we’ll also link to the two essays we discussed in our conversation, the Chronicle of Higher Education essay on “Lipstick Leadership” and Lori’s blog post on “Experiential Adult Education: Living and Practicing Democracy in Higher Learning.” We post these show notes on our website, theseedfield.org, where you’ll also find full episode transcripts, prior episodes, and more. The Seed Field Podcast is produced by Antioch University. Our editor is Nastasia Green. I’m your host, Jasper Nighthawk. Jen Mont is our web content coordinator. Stefanie Paredes, Lauren Arienzale, Dani LaPointe, and Liza Wisner are our work-study assistants. We received additional production help from Karen Hamilton, Melinda Garland, and Laurien Alexandre. Thank you for spending your time with us today. That’s it for this episode. We hope to see you next time. And don’t forget to plant a seed, sow a cause, and win a victory for humanity. From Antioch University, this has been the Seed Field Podcast.